Posts: 1,308
BitJam
Joined: 31 Aug 2009
#46
jdmeaux1952 wrote: AFTER the install (not on the Live CD), an icon pops up on the desktop to load additional apps and files, but you get to go through the list to decide if you want all or what.
This sounds a lot like the meta-installer. Have you tried it?

The only significant difference I see is that there is no icon that pops up when you first boot the installed system reminding you to run the meta-installer. Also, the meta-installer does not default to installing everything but there is so much available, hardly anyone would want to install it all.

IIUC, the idea of making everything fit on a CD is that the CD is all you need to have a functioning system. Think of situations where the Internet is either absent or unreliable (or expensive). There are some great things in the meta-installer that can get downloaded and installed but none of them are needed for the system to operate.
Posts: 667
jdmeaux1952
Joined: 01 Nov 2013
#47
BitJam wrote: IIUC, the idea of making everything fit on a CD is that the CD is all you need to have a functioning system. Think of situations where the Internet is either absent or unreliable (or expensive). There are some great things in the meta-installer that can get downloaded and installed but none of them are needed for the system to operate.
You are correct. But you could still cut plenty of files like multiple themes and such from the Live cd so it would all fit AND still have the Live cd as a functioning OS.
Posts: 71
zarg2
Joined: 16 Jul 2013

04 Apr 2014, 13:14 #48

I would exclude the Database and Presentation parts of Libreoffice as most users use the word/spreadsheet. also use ligter apps for things like music players (exhaile). an opening screen that allows users to select which DE to log in under similar to ubuntu's would be nice( I actually use 12.04 with cairo on my media server and it works really well).

Antix 13.2 and suprisingly fedora 2o LXDE are the best running Os on my old 2100 presario laptop so i look forward to antix 13.5 i would like to see less of the little odd ball linux tweaks like ar&r and more integration of things into your alllready excellent control center. The effort you all put into antix/MX14 shows and I appreciate the fact that you are allowing old hardware to still serve a usefull purpose.
Posts: 1,062
Dave
Joined: 20 Jan 2010
#49
zarg2 wrote: i would like to see less of the little odd ball linux tweaks like ar&r and more integration of things into your alllready excellent control center.
Being worked on __{{emoticon}}__
It has been something I have been told about multiple times by the people I installed antix for.
The best discription that I heard to describe the wanted result was the feel of a desktop environment without the desktop environment.
Posts: 71
zarg2
Joined: 16 Jul 2013
#50
I like ICwm-Rox but think LXDE as the default on 13.5 would give it a"newer" feel. As much as possible avoid duplication in menus; put all system stuff in control center.
for speed I prefer Chromium as a browser but can live with Iceweasel. My other app suggestions:

Menu's should have as few items as possible with no apps that have duplicate functions with the possible exception of keeping midnight commander as an alternate file manager for thoise that like a dual frame FM.

Filemanger- Rox- More powerful than peaple realize ( set it to automount installed media as this is what those migrating from XP expect.
LibreOffice - word and Spreadsheet with meta to install other portions if needed.
Music- Exaile -light and it works.
Video- VLC
Network Manager -WICD

Fonts- stick to a few that are tested and work well; those that want to tweak know how to get what they want.
Suggest have the Firewall enabled by default.
I run off testing currently but would not object to future stable releases defaulting to stable.

Thanks for two of the best OS's around!
Overall IMHO uniformity and simplicity of presentation are good goals; customization is available for those that desire but most casual users will never customize beyond changing their wallpaper.
Dell 4700 Ubuntu 12.04 with Cairo
Dell 2350 MX14 with LXDE
Compaq Presario 2100 laptop Antix 13.2 Icewm-rox
Acer ??? AMD64x2 Windows 7(Most linux like windows:).
Posts: 630
Eino
Joined: 12 Oct 2012
#51
I have had my own little project going on, What I like is antiX uses very little resources, and less eye-candy.
But it still looks good at the same time.
I put the extra resources into sound reproduction. So far it's worked out great for me.
This is my list of software used with my project, everything with a # was not included.
If you will notice on the list gogglesmm, was replaced by clementine.
  • acl
    acpi
    acpi-fakekey
    acpi-support
    alpine
    antix-cc-full-antix
    apt-show-versions
    apt-xapian-index
    aspell
    asunder
    bc
    bittorrent
    bleachbit
    bluetooth
    bluez
    brit-icons
    cclive
    cdparanoia
    #claws-mail
    conky
    cups
    cups-client
    cups-common
    cups-filters
    cups-ppdc
    dc3dd
    dcfldd
    desktop-defaults-full-antix
    dkms
    #dosbox
    e3
    epdfview
    ethtool
    ffmpeg
    file-roller
    fonts-lyx
    fonts-opensymbol
    foomatic-filters
    fusesmb
    gcc
    gcc-4.7
    gcolor2
    gdebi
    gdebi-core
    gftp
    gftp-text
    ghostscript
    gjots2
    glib-networking
    glib-networking-common
    glib-networking-services
    gnome-icon-theme
    gnome-icon-theme-symbolic
    gnome-mime-data
    gnome-mplayer
    gnome-themes-standard
    #gogglesmm
    gs-cjk-resource
    gsettings-desktop-schemas
    gsfonts
    gsfonts-x11
    gstreamer0.10-alsa
    gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg
    gstreamer0.10-gconf
    gstreamer0.10-nice
    gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad
    gstreamer0.10-plugins-base
    gstreamer0.10-plugins-good
    gstreamer0.10-x
    gtk-theme-switch
    gtkam
    gufw
    guvcview
    gvfs
    gvfs-common
    gvfs-daemons
    gvfs-libs
    #gweled
    hardinfo
    html2text
    ibus-gtk
    icewm
    icewm-common
    icewm-themes-antix
    icewmcc-antix
    #imagination
    #imagination-common
    irqbalance
    iso-codes
    keyutils
    #lbreakout2
    #lbreakout2-data
    libgpod-common
    #libreoffice-base-core
    #libreoffice-calc
    #libreoffice-common
    #libreoffice-core
    #libreoffice-draw
    #libreoffice-gtk
    #libreoffice-help-en-us
    #libreoffice-impress
    #libreoffice-math
    #libreoffice-style-galaxy
    #libreoffice-writer
    #links2
    lp-solve
    lua-filesystem
    luckybackup
    luckybackup-data
    mediterranean-themes
    menu-icewm-antix
    #mirage
    mp3gain
    mpg123
    mpg321
    mtpaint
    myspell-ca
    myspell-de-de
    myspell-el-gr
    myspell-en-gb
    myspell-es
    myspell-fr
    myspell-nl
    myspell-pl
    myspell-pt-br
    nautilus-data
    network-config
    #njam
    notify-osd
    numlockx
    openssh-server
    p7zip-full
    #photoprint
    #pidgin
    #pidgin-data
    policykit-1
    poppler-utils
    pv
    python-apt
    python-apt-common
    python-chardet
    python-cssselect
    python-cups
    python-cupshelpers
    python-dbus
    python-dbus-dev
    python-debian
    python-gconf
    python-gnome2
    python-imaging
    python-keybinder
    python-libxml2
    python-lxml
    python-notify
    python-pycurl
    python-pyorbit
    python-pyquery
    python-urwid
    python-vte
    python-webob
    python-wicd
    python-xapian
    radeontool
    rfkill
    #samba-common-bin
    #sane-utils
    #smbc
    #smbclient
    #smbnetfs
    spawn-fcgi
    speedcrunch
    ssl-cert
    streamripper
    streamtuner2
    synaptic
    system-config-printer
    system-config-printer-udev
    tk8.5
    #transmission
    #transmission-cli
    #transmission-common
    #transmission-daemon
    #transmission-gtk
    ttf-dejavu
    ttf-dejavu-extra
    ttf-lyx
    ttf-opensymbol
    ufw
    unclutter
    uno-libs3
    unrar-free
    ure
    uvcdynctrl
    uvcdynctrl-data
    vim
    vim-common
    vim-runtime
    wamerican
    wavpack
    wicd
    wicd-curses
    wicd-daemon
    wicd-gtk
    winff
    winff-doc
    wmctrl
    #wordgrinder
    xclip
    xfce-keyboard-shortcuts
    xfconf
    #xsane
    #xsane-common
    zim
    aconnectgui
    audacity
    #chromium
    fluid-soundfont-gm
    #musescore
    nted
    nted-doc
    soundconverter
    timidity
    timidity-daemon
    timidity-interfaces-extra
    lmms
    clementine
    gtick
    qjackctl
    #vlc
    vkeybd
Posts: 1,445
skidoo
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
#52
we need to slim down antiX-full so it will fit on a cd. At the moment, using the same apps as antiX-13.1 (minus a few libs not in Testing) the final iso comes out at around 750MB.

The easiest way to slim it to less than 700MB is to delete /usr/share/doc. This brings the iso size down to less than 690MB. So one option is to keep all the apps we have in 13.1 for 13.5, but remove the doc folder and make it available for download for those that want/need it.
You could always install antiX-base and customise to your own liking.

700 MB with libreoffice is set in stone for antiX. That isn't going to change.
Earlier, I had balked at the prospect of removing the docs. I'll relent on that point and acknowledge that a separate,
optionally downloadable, docs tarball or .deb (external to the iso file) does"make sense".

However, it does not"make sense", IMO, to eternally bloat toram live sessions with the presence of LibreOffice.
In the non-Debian realm, Puppy, Porteus, Slax, et al permit loading LibreOffice (or whatever segregated/modularized pieces) on-demand.
I wonder why antiX devs are relegated to (resigned to?) the chore of building/distributing 3 separate (core/base/full) ISOs, rather than thinking outside the Debian box and considering a modularized approach.

Acknowledging the"in case of limited internet connectivity" rationale, and the fitting everything on a CD (in case user cannot boot from USB pendrive) rational, I hear ya...
...but since I'm reading"with LibreOffice (in the ISO)" I'll just point out that a separate boot menu option to conditionally load (or not) LibreOffice sure would be a welcome feature.
Posts: 850
fatmac
Joined: 26 Jul 2012
#53
I agree that leaving out big apps like Libre Office would save an awful lot of space, BUT, most casual users/MSWindows converts 'feel a need' to have an office suite. If a distro doesn't offer that, they don't bother trying it out, short sighted, yes, but that is what happens. __{{emoticon}}__

My personal needs have changed since I first started using Linux, now I tend to use the browser more than anything else, other than music (xmms or mc/mpg123), & I used to use the commandline apps a lot! __{{emoticon}}__

With the tools supplied, I can remaster the distro to what I want, but newbies only see what is in the released distro. I am happy to leave the choice of included apps to those that create the distro, for I believe they know what they are doing. __{{emoticon}}__
Posts: 4,164
rokytnji
Joined: 20 Feb 2009
#54
I like Icewm-Rox but think LXDE as the default on 13.5 would give it a"newer" feel
There, fixed Icewm for you.

As having built LXDE up from a core install of 8.5 and having used it for years.

Nope, nope, and nope.

Not worth it to me on older gear. LXDE does not git a lean and mean concept.

There are enough LXDE Debian spinoffs in the wild but no current Icewm spinoffs what so ever.

Just my 2 cent opinion though.

Waiting on 13.5 myself for that Compaq CQ57 I set up. I know I could try the JWM 13.5 but I am a patient desert creature.
Posts: 1,308
BitJam
Joined: 31 Aug 2009
#55
skidoo wrote:However, it does not"make sense", IMO, to eternally bloat toram live sessions with the presence of LibreOffice. In the non-Debian realm, Puppy, Porteus, Slax, et al permit loading LibreOffice (or whatever segregated/modularized pieces) on-demand.
IMO we are ahead of the curve on this, not behind. On a LiveUSB just install and uninstall whatever packages you want then go to RemasterCC and run"Remaster". Problem solved. It really is that easy. IMO, this is a far superior solution. We already offer a set of advanced customization features. I don't want to break some of those in order to provide a less advanced feature that you may be more accustomed to. I believe what we offer is more customizable and more empowering to users.

It would be a lot of work to integrate this modular feature from Puppy et al. with our current customization features AND maintain our current level of ease and user friendliness. I believe what we offer already covers 90% of what the modularization feature does plus a whole lot more, including Debian compatibility. I see a huge pile of work here with very little added benefit to the users. You would have to explain more clearly why our current features don't meet your needs before I would entertain such a large undertaking.

It was a design choice we made early on. We decided to go in the direction of further empowering users rather than just blindly mimicking features offered by other distros. As with almost all design choices, there are trade offs involved. I'm not claiming there are no benefits to Puppy modules. I'm saying our LiveUSB features offer many similar benefits plus a lot more. For most users, I think what we offer is superior.
Posts: 1,445
skidoo
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
#56
feature that you may be more accustomed to
No, I'm not asking for anything ~~ I'm fully onboard with antix. For me, 13.1"base" was nearly perfect for my use.
BTW, thank you! I've learned a LOT in the course of experimenting with the various preinstalled WMs/DEs.
(and I agree:"remastering is just THAT easy")
Ah, but we didn't see a 13.2base...
(that's probably what motivated my comment regarding the chore maintaining 3 separate releases)
I like Icewm-Rox but think LXDE as the default on 13.5 would give it a"newer" feel
I would welcome the addition of LXDE (but not xfce, too many deps) as a pre-installed, choosable, DE
(I wind up installing lxtask and lxterminal for use within the other DEs anyhow)
but the concern toward minimizing the iso size seems to be the overruling factor.
Posts: 1,308
BitJam
Joined: 31 Aug 2009
#57
skidoo wrote:For me, 13.1"base" was nearly perfect for my use. [...] Ah, but we didn't see a 13.2base...
(that's probably what motivated my comment regarding the chore maintaining 3 separate releases)
That makes sense. I can see how it could seem that modularizing core/base/full would be an easy solution for your problem (no 13.2-base). AFAIK, most of our releases going forward will offer core, base, and full. AntiC can give you the details but I *think* that 13.1-base and 13.1-core can just be upgraded through apt to get to a 13.2 system. If so, then releasing 13.2 iso files for those system would be a disservice to many users who would download and install only to get back to the system they already had.

I'm sorry if my response was too gruff. I really do want to know about use-cases that we don't yet cover. One thing I'm working on now is to automatically generate the persistence files (rootfs and/or homefs) at boot-time if persistence is selected and the files don't yet exist. This was partly prompted by complaints on the Mepis MX forum. I wish I could, but I can't always imagine the system from a user's perspective. Feedback on the forums helps drive development.
Posts: 11
jeffreyC
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
#58
fatmac wrote:I agree that leaving out big apps like Libre Office would save an awful lot of space, BUT, most casual users/MSWindows converts 'feel a need' to have an office suite. If a distro doesn't offer that, they don't bother trying it out, short sighted, yes, but that is what happens.
That is strange since Windows does not come with an office suite pre-installed.
MS Office is separate from Windows and extra cost.
Posts: 1,445
skidoo
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
#59
One thing I'm working on now is to automatically generate the persistence files (rootfs and/or homefs)
at boot-time if persistence is selected and the files don't yet exist.
AFAIK, no distro has ever provided such functionality, not even puppy.
I might have seen such an idea discussed, and discarded, based on a rationale that it would (duh!) bog the boot process.
I *think* that 13.1-base and 13.1-core can just be upgraded through apt to get to a 13.2 system.
A perceived pain point is the comparatively older kernel present in 13.1
It is easier to dl 13.2 full, strip out stuff & snapshot from live session
than it is to"install" 13.1 (in order to update kernel) then recreate pendrive.
Feedback on the forums helps drive development.
I wish antix would provide a first-run"welcome" app/dialog, ala puppy.
By first-run I mean LIVE.
Any welcome provided post-install is a separate critter (one which many new users will miss, cannot benefit from, during a live test drive).
I'm not prepared to suggest what content nuggets and/or links that"welcome" should present
(could create a"welcome suggestions" thread and collect ideas + links)
Feedback on the forums helps drive development.
Several of the yad -powered gui utils launched by antix controlcentre are far from ideal, in terms of usability.
If you (again, for the Nth time?)"run through them, pretending to be a new user", you might recognize the pain points. One early (and especially daunting) pain point is creation of new persistence file ~~ no progressbar displays during the lengthy operation, leaving user wondering whether anything is happening, wondering"is the program hung up, or what"? Another pain point is multi-step operations which launch new dialog windows... then dump user back to the parent dialog, with zero indication of"you are here" or"the next step is... (highlighted)"

bug:
(I believe I've already twice reported this, since 13.1)
mouse acceleration. Change the setting and it (value for that pref) does not persist across sessions.
Change the setting and user is told"kb setting updated" (or somesuch) wtf? (3 different prefs reported for a single change)

observation:
The default entries contained in the snapshot exclude list, as well as the remastercc (?) exclude list... seem oriented to a'body creating a remaster intended to be shared with a friend. From where I sit (as a primarily live-session user), the more common use case would be pushing one's tweaked build back to a pendrive (flatten the layers, incorporate the savefile). Even from an installed system,"making a copy for self" seems (to me) the most common use case. By"erring on the safe side" and excluding paths containing"personal stuffs" by default, the scenario really stacks a burden (wading through docs, editing excludes file) on the casual user ~~ setting him up for disappointment when he discovers that his bookmarks and Downloads and whatnot have not been retained and preserved in the resulting"snapshot" copy. To avoid misunderstandings/disappointments, probably a good idea to add a first-run"speedbump" by forcing the user to at least handle (locate and rename, if not edit) the default excludes list.
Posts: 609
dark-D
Joined: 02 Jun 2008
#60
i see that gogglesmm was updated to a new version with lots of improvements.
if it remains in antix, here is the site for it.
========= SCRAPER REMOVED AN EMBEDDED LINK HERE ===========
url was:"http://gogglesmm.github.io/"
linktext was:"http://gogglesmm.github.io/"
====================================